tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post611034940882283316..comments2023-06-09T14:31:42.016+01:00Comments on Philosophy Metametablog: July FunPhilosophy Metametabloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04323470189556733345noreply@blogger.comBlogger189125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-24042605251525750232015-07-11T22:03:40.933+01:002015-07-11T22:03:40.933+01:00There is no objective evidence for your sexist cla...There is no objective evidence for your sexist claim 1, "a non", other than your personal prejudices. It is false. I have never come across an example of this absurdity. You are free to believe it. But nonetheless, it is paranoid and false; it is the kind of paranoid falsity that does huge damage to the academic profession. <br /><br />In point of fact, most male academics are familiar with <i>female</i> students making advances and flirting; these advances are usually <i>ignored</i>. In future, please try not to confuse facts with your own prejudices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-69268364022796653832015-07-11T21:28:08.952+01:002015-07-11T21:28:08.952+01:0011:47 - I appreciate the clarification, but I thin...11:47 - I appreciate the clarification, but I think you're still missing my point, given that you appear to conflate 1. the observation that straight men often misinterpret social cues when they are attracted to a woman, with 2. the claim that women are poor philosophers.<br /><br />Recall, I was not claiming that 1. is necessarily condemnable, nor is it universal, it's just an observation based on my own experience and that of women I've spoken with. Again, you're free to disagree here, and since I haven't looked for any relevant data, we might just have to leave it at that. (whereas, 2. is clearly false, and the assertion of 2. would evince actual bigotry).<br /><br />I mentioned this in order to offer a broader explanation of 6:24's claim that many female students feel that they have to be on guard. Indeed, I've heard this from female undergraduates before (and from a male undergraduate regarding his male professor).<br /><br />The claim was intended to be a partial diagnosis. I can't say I expected the conversation to look one way or another. <br /><br />It would be nice to have a more nuanced conversation about these sorts of interactions, however, so that it doesn't become simply SJWs shouting down, say, defenders of McGinn (see a few threads below), while everyone else remains silent. We know who will win that fight.a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-41460922664301571272015-07-11T08:58:32.849+01:002015-07-11T08:58:32.849+01:00"these new upstarts are getting publications&..."these new upstarts are getting publications"<br /><br />This is an embarrassment to the profession. So much of it is just shit. It might be good to do an empirical study to determine how often real philosophers are asked to review work done by the experimentalists. Seems to me like there's a cozy little arrangement where the very same people who dash off papers based on surveys are asked to evaluate papers like this. It's rare to find an experimental piece that deserves to see the pages of a journal. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-77377313386157698762015-07-11T07:53:05.592+01:002015-07-11T07:53:05.592+01:00I've had a theory about the identity of ARG/RM...I've had a theory about the identity of ARG/RMF for a while. I'm not going to say more about that now, but let's think about other angry philosophy bloggers for a second- you know, to get a profile....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-62838699761065989812015-07-11T07:47:06.254+01:002015-07-11T07:47:06.254+01:00a non, I'm not actually the guy who threw in t...a non, I'm not actually the guy who threw in the "bigotry" accusation. I agree that that's unhelpful. If you see a population trend (whether it be that men see female interest in places it doesn't actually exist, that women are poor philosophers and have constructed entire theories like standpoint epistemology to obscure this fact, or what have you), an anonymous blog like this is a fine place to air them, and accusations of bigotry are frankly beside the point. I'm just not exactly sure what you expected the resulting conversation to look like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-77490956708950561462015-07-11T07:20:24.768+01:002015-07-11T07:20:24.768+01:00I feel sad for Angry Rage Guy. I feel sad for Angry Rage Guy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-36175961317323283092015-07-11T07:19:00.794+01:002015-07-11T07:19:00.794+01:00Why is Angry Rage Guy so angry, is the real questi...Why is Angry Rage Guy so angry, is the real question. It can only be properly answered by looking to his psychology or his biography or autobiography. Is there some event or series of events involving a woman that we need to know? Is there some sordid or humiliating memory that shades all that he now experiences, keeping him from even hoping to find a way to trust a woman again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-15599396224285564882015-07-11T06:30:12.842+01:002015-07-11T06:30:12.842+01:00*metablog founder*metablog founderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-59542299695886042262015-07-11T06:28:46.379+01:002015-07-11T06:28:46.379+01:00A non, please meet Angry Rage Guy. He's a real...A non, please meet Angry Rage Guy. He's a real mrtablog founder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-77746927977356783062015-07-11T04:47:55.955+01:002015-07-11T04:47:55.955+01:00That's slightly less childish; a step in the r...That's slightly less childish; a step in the right direction!<br /><br />I appreciate that the plural of 'anecdote' is not data, but it's hard for me to dismiss the relevant anecdotes, from 6:24's comment above, the McGinn case, and my own experience and information from women with whom I've spoken. <br /><br />You are clearly free to push back by noting that this is not consistent with your experience (though it would be nice to know what your experience has been - have you been much on the receiving end of such unwanted attention in professional settings?). <br /><br />But replying with your obviously disingenuous remarks about bigotry is just lame and unhelpful.a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-33362137682887670412015-07-11T02:19:06.776+01:002015-07-11T02:19:06.776+01:00I don't understand. What sort of substantive r...I don't understand. What sort of substantive response should be forthcoming to your anecdata? "That hasn't fit my experience." "Okay! Good talk!" ????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-39667706729591128182015-07-11T02:07:35.317+01:002015-07-11T02:07:35.317+01:00Look 3:00, I get it, we should not denounce sexism...Look 3:00, I get it, we should not denounce sexism aimed at women while allowing sexism aimed at men. I, too, am disgusted by NC types who think it's open season on white, cis gendered, heterosexual, etc etc etc - whoever is the enemy of the day.<br /><br />But I am not evincing bigotry by making a generalization (a generalization which I said was not necessarily condemnable) based on experience and observation, especially given that something like this willful self-deceit was operative in the McGinn case (though clearly McGinn's was far more pathological).<br /><br />If you want to challenge any of these points, go ahead. Do try, though, to offer something substantive. a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-12872092419535036942015-07-11T00:18:07.426+01:002015-07-11T00:18:07.426+01:0011:30 here, replying to 11:32. I think that exerc...11:30 here, replying to 11:32. I think that exercise is helpful, though I would caution against painting the other professions with too broad a brush. In my small hometown it was pretty common to know your doctor's home phone number. Even outside of that one can have the doctor paged by the hospital. Legal clients (at least long standing ones) often have the personal cell number of their attorney, though the reason is typically not for a health related emergency. Even that caveat gets violated by some in public health and legal aid.<br /><br />The real difficulty which I think this brings out is where to locate the university instructors. For doctors, lawyers, accountants and so on there is no presumption of impropriety in these contacts. For pre college teachers there clearly is, though it can be overridden, I knew coaches who would call a student who seemed rather neglected by his family. College seems to fall somewhere between those two poles, but it's hard to know where. One issue is that college students don't live with or even near their parents, so at times the instructors will be better positoned to identify students who are struggling, unlike the typical pre college student.<br /><br />As others have noted, economics matter. My situation would have been easier if I wasn't an adjunct. Firther, it's much easier to dismiss my concerns if you adopt the increasingly common view of students as mere consumers. If teaching is just an arms length market transaction, then it's clear that I really shouldn't concern myself with the well being of my students outside of class. Rather, my primary concern should be to protect myself and my department from undue risk by following procedure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-44127977035073177722015-07-10T23:00:24.853+01:002015-07-10T23:00:24.853+01:00"In my experience, talking to straight women ..."<i>In my experience, talking to straight women and observing straight men, this is a totally common mindset.</i>"<br /><br />No it isn't, you sexist bigot. It is a reflection of your nasty sexist bigotry. Now go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-39715485960078766622015-07-10T22:44:49.303+01:002015-07-10T22:44:49.303+01:00hahaha. Perfect.hahaha. Perfect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-390322200440305432015-07-10T22:38:50.666+01:002015-07-10T22:38:50.666+01:00The idea that my observation was a 'nasty'...The idea that my observation was a 'nasty' claim is risible. I didn't suggest that such behavior is disgusting, or even necessarily condemnable: often it's a case of mixed signals, with some willful self-deception on the man's part (though there are of course more extreme and thus condemnable cases, but those aren't the ones I was addressing) This is obviously not analogous to claiming that women use men to get whatever they want.<br /><br />In my experience, talking to straight women and observing straight men, this is a totally common mindset. But I'm happy to let straight women chime in, as I am not a straight woman.<br /><br />The larger point, however, was that the whole situation is a result of the neglectful responses to genuine harassment in the past, the rise of SJWs and their ability to sway administrators, and the tenuous situation of adjuncts. Hence the need for reasonable voices to speak up, at least so as to address the first two problems, which should end up benefitting adjuncts as well. a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-760383425530422892015-07-10T22:08:10.648+01:002015-07-10T22:08:10.648+01:00The remarks by 8:21/8:25 regarding the fraught sit...The remarks by 8:21/8:25 regarding the fraught situation described by 11:30 were callous, despicable and shitty. <br /><br />Now move on, 1:43, or go back to the FP cesspool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-58490817219706380442015-07-10T21:43:19.775+01:002015-07-10T21:43:19.775+01:00People are calling each other "human shit,&qu...People are calling each other "human shit," and you're complaining about "news flash it's fine," and generalizations about straight men?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-42892588399971747662015-07-10T21:34:00.870+01:002015-07-10T21:34:00.870+01:00Let's take the nasty claim by "a non"...Let's take the nasty claim by "a non",<br /><br />"<i>All too many straight men think that practically any interaction indicates sexual interest on the part of the woman involved, and women are often appropriately on guard</i>"<br /><br />and just change a few words,<br /><br />"<i>All too many straight women think that they can use a man to get what they want, and men are often appropriately on guard.</i>"<br /><br />See?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-77396506985744691162015-07-10T21:27:51.925+01:002015-07-10T21:27:51.925+01:008.25's comment was massively inappropriate in ...8.25's comment was massively inappropriate in both tone and content. But the bit that leapt out at me was<br /><br /><i>Ohhh one time you had to deal with wondering whether or not it was appropriate to give your phone number to a student direly in need. (News flash, it's fine.)</i><br /><br />Where have you been the last couple of years? It's become utterly undeniable that giving a student your phone number, whatever the circumstances could, not <i>probably</i> but <i>very</i> easily, subsequently be made to sound sinister by the recipient, a colleague, a dept chair or (especially) an ODH administrator. It is not paranoid to point out that any such person might have reasons for wanting to harm you, and if they lit the right fuses in a sufficiently skilful way on FB, FP, DN etc a bunch of your students could be toting mattresses to the provost's office in no time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-46626038780382221132015-07-10T21:21:01.124+01:002015-07-10T21:21:01.124+01:00"All too many straight men think that practic..."<i>All too many straight men think that practically any interaction indicates sexual interest on the part of the woman involved, and women are often appropriately on guard.</i>"<br /><br />No they don't. Why do you believe this nasty sexist claim?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-90621772959805992652015-07-10T21:13:38.068+01:002015-07-10T21:13:38.068+01:00Perhaps we should avoid calling each other 'hu...Perhaps we should avoid calling each other 'human shit,' which is over the top, not to mention hilariously ridiculous. <br /><br />I see merit in both 11:30's comment and in 6:24's response. All too many straight men think that practically any interaction indicates sexual interest on the part of the woman involved, and women are often appropriately on guard.<br /><br />11:30, it seems, was sincerely interested in his student's well-being, but prevented from acting rightly, at least according to his own lights.<br /><br />This problem is sort of a microcosm of the larger issues at play: sexual harassment in the profession leading female students to be on guard, SJW vigilantism threatening reasonable, non-harassing behavior, and adjuncts being always on the knife's edge in these situations.<br /><br />I'm not sure there's a clean resolution in this case, but perhaps one lesson to be drawn here is that we who occupy the 'middle ground' need to remain reasonable lest we push others into one camp or the other. Calling someone human shit is precisely the opposite of that.a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-80545856599049015702015-07-10T20:58:28.550+01:002015-07-10T20:58:28.550+01:00I've always loved this quote, from a Richard M...I've always loved this quote, from a Richard Moran interview:<br /><br />As to ‘experimental philosophy, I can’t claim to be very well versed in it, but it seems to be a research program in its early days. I think that by now, even its practitioners are beginning to realise that simply asking people, outside of any particular context, about their “intuitions” about some concept of philosophical interest is not really going to be informative since without any philosophical background to the question, the respondents themselves can’t really know just what question they are being asked to answer, what their responses are responses to. There are just too many different things that can be meant by a question like, “‘Was such-and-such an action intentional or not?”, for example. And without further discussion or further analysis, the experimenters themselves can’t know what answers they are being given by the respondents. It’s not good data. So I can imagine experimental philosophy evolving in a way to account for this, and starting to include some philosophical background to the investigation, perhaps even some philosophical history, to provide the needed context to the particular intuitions that they are trying to expose and test for. At that point, the experimental situation might also become less one-sided, with a researcher examining a respondent, and could allow for the experimental subjects themselves to ask questions of the experimenters, including questions of clarification and disambiguation, and perhaps even challenges to the way the experimenter has framed the questions.<br /><br />Later it might be found useful to conduct such experiments in small groups rather than individually, with one experimenter and one subject, and instead the respondents could be encouraged to discuss the questions among themselves as well as with the experimenter. People could meet in these groups two or three times a week and perhaps some relevant reading could be assigned, to clarify and expand upon the question, and the respondents would be given time to do the reading, and asked to write something later on about the question in connection with the reading and the discussions they have had. Then the experimenter could provide “comments” on this writing for the experimental subjects themselves. I think grading the results would be optional on such an arrangement, and probably of no experimental interest, but other than that I think something like this could be the future of experimental philosophy. It’s worth trying anyway.a nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-37744700736677311592015-07-10T20:40:50.700+01:002015-07-10T20:40:50.700+01:00I doubt that you're right that women are permi...I doubt that you're right that women are permitted to "get away with assault, harassment and rape," but I'll even grant that you are. Here's the thing: it's true that women get judged for "letting themselves" get into a situation to be sexually harassed in the first place. That's messed up. But I'm afraid I can't continue this conversation with you 12:28. Have a nice day. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1355563160992600607.post-17230693707643771492015-07-10T20:28:07.997+01:002015-07-10T20:28:07.997+01:00Bullshit, 12:18. The burden is on men, with no exc...Bullshit, 12:18. The burden is on men, with no exceptions, ever. Women are permitted to get away with assault, harassment and rape, despite around half of perpetrators of violence and abuse coming from women. So stop lying.<br /><br />11:33, agreed - and others reading your account sympathize with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com